004 You are Enough with Jon Vroman

Jon shares his entertaining and heartfelt thoughts on why a belief of you are enough is essential as we travel into the exciting unknown. He talks about the importance of developing self awareness and intuition and some of the ways he has built those skills. We explore how fatherhood, career changes and even today’s challenging world are all grounded in understanding our and others’ feelings and emotions as well as the impact they have on others.  

Jon Vroman’s Bio:Jon Vroman is a husband and father, who also happens to be the founder of FrontRowDads.com and host of the Front Row Dads podcast.

His mission is to help high-performing entrepreneurial men be family men with businesses, not businessmen with families.

In addition to his business and family, Jon founded FrontRowFoundation.org in 2005, a charity that creates unforgettable moments for individuals who are braving life-threatening illnesses.
10-years later, he published The Front Row Factor, to share “everything you can learn about living life from those fighting for it.”

Links:

www.frontrowdads.com
www.frontrowfoudation.org

TranscriptUnknown Speaker  8:09  

All right, what’s going on? I’m Steven Christopher here with my co host Loura Sanchez and welcome to another episode of the exciting on known podcast today. As always, we have an absolutely amazing guest for you. This guy is special in a ton of ways. One way is that he actually married me and my wife Katie. He, he is a man. He’s not even a jack of all trades. He’s like a master of many, many trades. He has so many accolades and he is one of the most giving people on the face of the planet that I’ve ever met. I met him. She’s probably over over 10 years ago, maybe about 12 years ago at this point. And I remember the first words He ever said to me and the first words that he ever said to me or was, you are enough, and that is stuck with me, I guess pretty much forever. But anytime that I’m feeling uncomfortable or anything like this, especially in the exciting unknown, it’s one of these things that I always go back to. And it’s, it’s directly from when he mentioned this to me from one of the first times we’ve met. So our guest today is a professional speaker, or at least has been a professional speaker. He was continuously rated the number one collegiate speaker in America year after year after year, after year, and if you’ve ever seen him or ever get the chance to see him move a college crowd have right, like a stadium or amphitheater full of college students. It’s absolutely amazing. He is one of the best friends in the world to those around him. He is an absolutely amazing father. He runs A group called front row dad’s he also runs the front row Foundation, which helps people with terminally ill diseases have these amazing epic experiences. But he doesn’t just do it for them. They also do it for their family, they record these so that their family can have this living legend, this living, epic, high point in this person’s life before they ultimately most of them end up passing at some point. He hosts to podcast he’s an author. I could go on and on and on. But let’s not without further ado, welcome John Broman.

Unknown Speaker  10:39  

Guys, this is so fun. I’m so happy to be here. I’ve been looking forward to this. So I can’t wait to hear what we’re going to talk about.

Unknown Speaker  10:50  

It’s gonna be good. This is gonna be great. So I mean, I Dude, I got a I got a whole page of questions so well and I know between me and you and Laura, we never run out of anything to Talk about but never let’s jump right in. So the exciting unknown you’re like, when I think about guests that we have lined up and that we’ve had, you’re like the epitome of living the exciting unknown when you were young, and I’ll let you kind of elaborate on this, but when you’re young, you worked with Cutco. You had a really, really great job. You’re making good money, and you left set job for something that was much less what consistent plan known all of the above. So tell us just a little bit about that background like where you were in Cutco and stuff and then let’s let’s get rockin, yeah, you

Unknown Speaker  11:38  

know, I feel like this goes even it goes back even further, even to my childhood where my dad was in the Navy, and we moved every two or three years, you know, so every two or three years I was in a new school, I was in an area that was unknown and I and I almost chose the identity of somebody who loves to step into an unknown. I think it was uncomfortable until I chose to make it my thing. Right. So not necessarily a natural ability, if you will, but one that I just embraced and I think that just never end. You know, it’s the never ending, you know, part of my life because I adopted this identity. The part that you just were talking about this Cutco world. Yeah, I mean, it started 18 years old and talking about landing like a summer job selling knives that 14 years later, I’m an executive with the company making more money than I ever could have imagined. And I had the house in the car and the girlfriend and I felt like okay, well, this is it, right? Like, I can go eat at restaurants and travel the world. And like, there’s all this stuff that I had hoped for. But the thing that was missing was the charitable element. For me, that giving back piece and so that’s when we started front row foundation. Well, I loved that so much that I thought, you know, what could I do to support the charity, what would be the best move I could make in my life that would support the charity. If that was I was Uber committee. into that, well, I landed on speaking. And the minute that I knew that I could be a speaker and I could speak about what it means to live life in the front row and all the things you could learn about living life from people fighting for it, because the the backdrop of the charity that what we were learning there, I was like, we have to tell the world about this. We have to tell the world about these amazing people. And there’s incredible stories that I want to share. And then I want to raise money for the charity through the process and it all worked in harmony. Well, I move fast when I get a vision. Right. So I took the leap. I left on great terms from Cutco. I love that group. I’m still great friends with everybody there, including the leaders of that organization. And they’ve been huge ambassadors for the cause. But yeah, 2008 2008 let me just let that a year. I bought a second house, which then I proceeded to spend all of my money year one, year two, I went into debt, and right when I thought, you know, was it you know, I was like, is this gonna work? You know, is this gonna To work, we won an award in the speaking business and it took off. But there was a massive amount of uncertainty, a massive amount of unknown in that space. So yeah, and that that’s, you know, that’s one of the many places where I stepped into a, a world of absolute unknown, an unknown future. But with a lot of faith that I would figure it out that I would find the right relationships, tap into the right resources and ultimately get the results.

Unknown Speaker  14:31  

So how long when you started thinking about making that transition? I’m going to call it kind of like you were being pulled by something, maybe something greater than you are calling, whatever that one year. So you, okay, so you woke up one day and started thinking like, hey, maybe I should be doing this other thing. And you sat on that for basically a year basically, or you did it?

Unknown Speaker  14:50  

Yeah. Yeah. And I think they were inklings of like, what might be next or would it be cool to do that? But it was probably a year before I really thought you know what, I’m gonna make the transition

Unknown Speaker  15:00  

What was so in that year? What was going through your mind? Like, why didn’t you do it sooner? And why didn’t you wait longer? So the reason I actually

Unknown Speaker  15:09  

waited a year was because my, one of my best friends was my boss. And when I went to him and said, This is what I wanted, this is what I need to do. We sat down and had a heart to heart, we always we built our relationship on trust and transparency. And he just said, Hey, man, I could really use your help for the next year. You’re helping, you know, getting things lined up, helping me find a replacement. Like it would really, really help me if you gave me a year. And that was the easiest decision I had to make. I said, of course, I give you a year. That was it. So that’s why it took a year otherwise I probably would have been out in 30

Unknown Speaker  15:46  

days. But But yeah,

Unknown Speaker  15:48  

I was I was chomping at the bit but I wanted to leave like I was so grateful to Cutco and to hit our relationship that we had that I mean, he could have asked me for anything and I would have said yes Because that’s that’s who he is as well. He delivers as many yeses for me, by the way, as I do for him. So we try to outdo each other with how we step up and serve.

Unknown Speaker  16:09  

That’s awesome, man. And so how do you, you mentioned this faith, right, just knowing that the right things would show up knowing that the right things would kind of unfold and you know, that’s a huge part of the exciting unknown is trusting that how have you always had that just as like an innate skill of like, the faith and the trust or what what was what was happening?

Unknown Speaker  16:32  

I have a fairly high tolerance for risk. So I’ve, I’ve bungee jumped I’ve been skydiving, right. I in general, like in many areas of my life, I’m happy to take a risk. I won’t even say I want to, I won’t always say a calculated risk because I don’t know how calculated I’ve been in the risks that I’ve taken, but I almost just trust in my heart that if it said, If I say go, that I’m going to just have faith that Something will work out there. And it will be exciting to figure it out. So I’ve said yes to trips I’ve said yes to people. I’ve said yes to partnerships. I’ve said yes. Without a great deal of thought when my heart says yes, you know, even think about marrying my, my now wife of 13 years, and I think about when we met. And something came very clear to me that for years, I would ask people, how do you know when you found the one? How do you know when you found the one? And what I realized through finding Tatyana was that you’ll you’ll know that she’s the one when you don’t have to ask the question anymore. Is she the one? And so I believe that a lot of where I tend to make my decisions from is just trusting my gut, and saying, you know, look, if I leave my job, and I go try to be a speaker, and somehow that doesn’t work out even like I play it all out to the very, very bitter end and I go at the end of my life, what will I be more proud of security, or the fact that I chase the dream? And that to me was easy. Like I would have rather been like broke and poor and like trying to make it as a bartender or something like that on the weekends just still cheap, but but still knowing in my heart that I took the leap. And I said, Yes. And that’s, by the way for me, so I’m not projecting that value onto somebody else. I don’t think that somebody that values security, is it that I’m not saying I’m any better than somebody that values security, there’s just two different needs that we chase in life. It’s just I had to honor the need that I had. And so I have a very high tolerance for risk in that space, right, for variety and for adventure, and in all of those aspects of my life, and I can give you 100 stories to demonstrate it.

Unknown Speaker  18:49  

But,

Unknown Speaker  18:50  

you know, I just want excitement. I want variety. I want fun, and I’m willing to risk a great deal of security for that.

Unknown Speaker  18:58  

So did you have you ever done The practices around like honing your intuition. You know, you mentioned, you follow your heart, you know, which I’m going to interpret Tell me if I’m wrong. I’m gonna interpret that also as like intuition, right? Like, getting there like, yeah, like, Okay, I’m going to say yes. Yeah, it feels good, right? You feel the emotion of Hey, this feels good, exciting, whatever it is. Oh, I don’t know what it is. I’m gonna follow it. Did you ever do? Yes. Did you do practices?

Unknown Speaker  19:26  

So he tell you about famous Anki. So my friend fee who was my coach who I I hired years ago, I don’t even know how long ago famous Anki It was the most expensive, expensive coaching experience that I’ve ever had. It was one of those, like, how much is your coaching and she throws up the number and you’re like choking? Right? Like but I had a couple friends who had coached with her and had tremendous results. I remember I was on the phone with her one day. And she was asking me how I felt and she was like, where do you feel that in your body?

Unknown Speaker  19:56  

And I remember thinking the hell do you mean where do I Feel that in my body like, you know, it’s like in your gut in your heart, and I’m like,

Unknown Speaker  20:04  

I have no idea. Like, I don’t

Unknown Speaker  20:06  

know, if this is such a foreign thought to me about where do you feel it in your body. But I do believe that that was the first exposure that I had to really becoming aware to having a self awareness of my being in the world and that there is there are indications as to how that feels. And sometimes, I’ve at times in my life, I’ve been so stimulated by things right, like you can, you can, by the way, be frantic and stimulated constantly with social media, do this and do that and not be in your body and in reaction to constantly the stimulus around you. Right, whereas I didn’t need to learn how to quiet and think and feel and cents and tap into that inner guidance system. That was speaking to me. So you do need to quiet down to hear the, the whispering of the soul if you will. And I needed to learn that. So yeah, it was fee. And then it was a lot of other people who did the same thing, you know, who taught me in their own unique way. I mean all, you know, the mindfulness practices that I’ve been taught by all my friends, Matt tenny Giuliana Ray, or people that I’ve listened to on podcasts or, you know, attending Tony Robbins events from everywhere that, you know, ultimately, these leaders, these thought leaders, were teaching me how to listen to my inner compass in their own unique ways.

Unknown Speaker  21:39  

I love that. Because I’m a big believer, and this is only probably in the last couple years that I’ve started to believe this more that, you know, we don’t need another 10 step program about how to be more mindful or five steps to this, because I think we’re all so we’re all unique. We’re all so unique, right? We have so many different experiences that have made who we are today. And, therefore, we need to learn how to tap into this stuff as as an individual, you know, so like you said, we feel it in different places. And I don’t know. I mean, this is just something that’s taken me a lot of time over the last five or six years to start to hone in on this thing and you know, I can read you and I can read the same 10 bucks, but yet, we could have a completely different outcome. You know, you feel it in your belly, and I feel it in my right ear. And then we use a weird place to feel things even.

Unknown Speaker  22:37  

What does that tell you about life? Stephen?

Unknown Speaker  22:39  

Is that a judgment?

Unknown Speaker  22:42  

Everyone is you be

Unknown Speaker  22:46  

like Yoda shit, man. That’s it.

Unknown Speaker  22:50  

Well, now I do have to know though deep. So do you. Where do you feel that that little? Yeah, well, tension or whatever it is.

Unknown Speaker  22:57  

I think I’m learning, you know. In fact, I’ll tell you One of my buddies, Tim Nick alive. Do you know Tim, have you guys ever met? I think so. He’s such a brilliant dude. And and Tim is a front road dad. He’s in my membership group. He’s also a great friend lives here in Austin. And Tim has been very influential in my life in many different ways. And one of the ways is that I’ll give you an example, in a very simple way in conversation about life, he’ll be the one to often say, How do you feel about this, john? Because I tend to be very thoughtful about other people. What do they think and how are they going to react to this? And he would just come back to me and be like, what do you think? Like, even in my marriage, right? Well, I would go to him with like, a challenge I’m having with Tatiana. And he would say, What do you want? Right? Like he would really challenge me to figure out what I wanted, what I felt and what I needed. And I was spending so much time trying to ask, how did what was she doing? What was she thinking? What was she feeling what was right and I’m not saying that empathy or understanding your partner isn’t very valid it certainly is has a whole place in a big conversation about understanding how your partner feels and what they want what they need. But you also need to know what you want and need. Right? You need to know how that feels for you. Where do you get a hell? Yes. This goes back to like a Derrick Silver’s. If it’s not a hell, yes. It’s no. Like, again, all people saying it in their own unique way. But Tim was very good at that. And I’ll bring it literally to a this week conversation. So I’m having a, you know, argument, let’s it’s an argument with my wife, right? Where we’re fighting, we’re not in sync, and I go out for a walk. And I’m like, I need to talk to a buddy. I need to I need to reach out to a brother. I need somebody to lean on who will answer the phone for me right now at this hour, that gives a shit about my life. And I called Tim. And I said, Hey, man, I need you to talk me through this because Tim and I are also studying conscious leadership. So Jim death mer, who wrote the book, The 15, commitments of conscious leadership, who’s an amazing guy. It’s an amazing book, and I’m taking his conscious parenting course right now. He was just on my podcast about how to be present with your kids. And this is Jim’s jam, like this is where he thrives in this area of like, how does that feel. And part of his, what he teaches, is the first thing that we do if we want to be, you know, into to, to ultimately to lead from a conscious place is to be in a non triggered non reactive state. So the first thing we have to ask is, where are we? Where are we right now? Like, where are we? Where do we feel and he teaches, and this isn’t his work. It’s actually something you probably have heard about, in fact, but I think this is gay Hendricks maybe that was originally taught. I have no idea. It was somebody else, but it was the above the line below the line. Have you guys talked about that or heard this? Sounds kind

Unknown Speaker  25:53  

of familiar. But no, this

Unknown Speaker  25:54  

is easy. I’ll just teach it right now. So imagine it’s just right. There’s this line and you’re either on above the line or below the line at any point during the day, when you’re below the line, you are apparate operating out of fear, you’re operating out of scarcity, you are triggered maybe by something, you’re right and you and that is a place it’s a lower vibration to be operating from or you’re operating above the line. And above the line is out of love and acceptance and trust and faith and All right, so we can operate very easily out of above the line and below the line. And what you might imagine is that when you are in either of those different places that the conversation you have is different, right? And it doesn’t mean that by the way below the line is bad and you’re wrong and you’re a horrible person when you’re below the line. This is partially just accepting. I’m triggered, right? I have literally moved from my prefrontal cortex to my amygdala, reptilian operating fight, flight, freeze, etc. That’s where I am And then when you are there, can you accept yourself for being there without beating yourself up? Right? This almost goes back to your enough, right? Like, this is an acceptance. This is a surrendering. This is an awareness of, I’m triggered, I’m below the line. And so I need to recognize that right that I’m there. And part of being a great dad as an example. So the context for me, is that where I was talking with Jim about being present, being in your body, understanding how you feel, is that at any moment throughout the day, I might say, so my son, my son triggers me he does something and he triggers me. And I say, Where am I? I’m definitely below the line. Alright, can I accept that I’m below the line. And when I’m there, I can actually project to my son. Hey, buddy, I’m actually quite triggered right now. And I don’t think that having this conversation is good in this moment. Because I’m in this reactive state. I’m actually a little afraid that I’m going to respond in appropriately or incorrectly. I’m just going to take a moment and breathe. And and I’m going to, I’m going to find a better state for myself and then I’ll be able to come back and have this conversation later. Right? And so many times that serves us when we can check in and go, how does that feel like are your shoulders tense? That can mean anger? Right? Do you feel it in your stomach? See, I feel nervousness in my stomach. I feel anger in my shoulders and it shoots out my hands like I want to punch something. And I think what you start to realize is that your body is giving you clues as to what do you feel? I don’t feel anger in my stomach. Right? Like I get queasy in my stomach when I’m about to take the stage. But I get tense in my neck when I’m pissed at somebody. Right? And so it shows up differently in your body. You get a tingling feeling that’s something else right? You get your body’s indicating all these emotions to you if you learn to pay attention and start to recognize the patterns as they emerge. Hmm, I love that.

Unknown Speaker  29:00  

Yeah, and that’s something that I’ve just started really focusing more on, like, physically where things showing up, what do they show up as? And once you start to become aware of that, it’s actually it’s an amazing telltale, right? I mean, ultimately, you just kind of fly off the handle and, you know, go down this path of being really pissed off about something. Yeah. But when you can take a second, you know, a couple seconds, take a breath, and see, okay, where do I feel that or what are my emotions leading me into? And then I love kind of where you’re going with that about? Well, here’s how I’m going to interpret it in the way I think about it. As you know, we are not necessarily our emotions, we are not necessarily our thoughts. So just because we have a thought about like, you know, we’re pissed at somebody we’re like, you know, you’re you’re a fucking asshole, right? That thought doesn’t actually mean that we are bad. And it doesn’t actually mean that that person is an asshole, right? It’s just that that’s what that’s how we experienced it because we have the ability to go a layer deeper to and become more and more and more aware.

Unknown Speaker  30:06  

This is it. And by the way, let’s tie it back to the unknown, right, the exciting unknown because here’s what happens. Usually when somebody for example, if they’re angry, they’re actually really just scared, right? So Tatiana gets angry that tiger, my 10 year old isn’t doing his homework or his stuff. The reality is that she’s angry at him that he’s not working harder on his homework. But really, she’s just scared that he’s not going to have the skills needed to succeed in life or that she’s scared that she’s not going to be a great mom. Right? This is a fear that leads her there. So the thing is that the unknown is oftentimes filled with a fear of like, I don’t know what’s gonna happen here. I don’t know what’s gonna go on. So when we start to understand and identify that I’m not really angry, I’m really just scared when you’re fighting with somebody, you might just be scared that you’re not good enough to get your point across. That your relationship might end. And what’s amazing is that when you have an awareness to that of how that’s showing up in your body and what it all means, you navigate the unknown much more differently. And an example of this is that Tatiana and I, when we were going through a really rough spot in our marriage about two years ago, we were seeing a counselor here locally in Austin, and she was wonderful. And one of the things she taught us, which I still hold to this day, and it made a huge difference for me and makes a difference for anybody out there, whether we’re talking about your marriage, whether you’re talking about your relationship with your kids or relationship with a friend, or a colleague or a business or an associate anybody right? Is this is that whoever’s the least triggered in a conversation is responsible for that conversation. So in other words, if you’re arguing with somebody and somebody’s just losing their shit, and you’re okay for the moment, your goal is not to get wrapped up in that and meet them at their level to write your to elevate your vibration. Like oh, you want Fight. Let’s go.

Unknown Speaker  32:01  

Right. All

Unknown Speaker  32:03  

right, I’m ready to rumble. But your goal is if I’m not as triggered, and I recognize that they’re getting triggered, that my whole goal is to heal that person to help them to de escalate. How fitting is this to where we are right now in the world. Right? Exactly. Yeah, to de escalate a situation. So that when you’re back in that space, when you are operating from a place of above the line, you know, or even recognizing that you’re triggered can have a dialogue, right? That in that space, you can be fully present. And through presence. You have all your wisdom available to you. Because it’s only in a present state that you can tap into all of the wisdom that’s within you to know what to do next. Next in that conversation, to know how to connect with that person, or lead your team, or right or to or to make change in your communities, in a positive productive way is only when you’re present. So you’ve got to know where you are. You’ve got to be self aware enough about that, then you’ve got to accept yourself for being there. It’s okay to be angry. But when you have knowledge of what’s happening, about this place of the unknown, like, Whoa, I don’t know what’s gonna happen here. I don’t know if my kid’s gonna be okay. I don’t know if if the world’s gonna be okay. I don’t know if our community is going to be okay with all this stuff happening. We have to be following these tools that lead us back into our innate infinite wisdom that we have.

Unknown Speaker  33:54  

Hmm, I love that and you know what, what comes up for me around this is So for so many years, decades, whatever that is, we, you know, especially like the world that the three of us has been in, right? I mean, we’ve been around some amazing people, the Tony Robbins world, you know, the just all kinds of personal development for for decades. And what I’m starting to see is, like, for me, personally, I used to go to positivity, instead of depth, right? So a lot of times, if somebody came to me with an issue, or if I was experiencing one, I would go to like, Oh, well, you know, don’t worry, just look for the silver lining. It’ll be all good. And now I’ve started to to really hone in this level of awareness and starting to lean into emotions a lot more. And it’s so much more impactful. It’s so much deeper, it’s so much richer. And I think it’s really cool that we’re starting to have conversations around this because 20 years ago, I don’t know 2025 years ago. I don’t think we would have had this many conversations. Especially not with really well known leaders in the I guess what I’ll call more of the self help personal development type world. It would have been so much more about like, just stay positive, just do this. And I don’t know, what do you think? Is this? Is this something that people have known and just not wanted to talk about as much in the past? And now it’s starting to be more commonplace? Or is this like a newer thing that we’re starting as a as a collective group of leaders starting to be like, Oh, wait, like, those emotions actually do show us something. And if we kind of bury them, or don’t use them as guidance, really bad things can happen? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  35:42  

I don’t know, man. I mean, I think I would be guessing. I think I would be you know, I’d be speculating to some degree. But what what i what i will tell you that I felt when you shared that Steven is this, you know that we talk about this positivity? There’s nothing wrong with positivity, right. There’s nothing with finding a silver lining at all, the only time it becomes challenging is if it’s our only tool, right? Or if it’s our if it’s the only thing we go to and you know what I couldn’t help but have a feeling to that of working in the charity for the last 15 years it’s come to my attention several times as an example that when somebody is in a place of unknown not knowing their future having a cancer right that they don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow they don’t know what’s gonna happen when they go to the doctor. That’s a crazy unknown place and I don’t know they would call it an exciting unknown but but it is definitely an unknown. And what I what I’ve learned over time, and this was a revelation for me this was an evolution for me was that I was definitely the guy 1520 years ago that would respond to everything by saying something like, God only gives you what you can handle. Right? You know that, that what’s the bright side of this? I was definitely that guy and a lot of that was my training in Cutco, which is a great place to start. like looking at the bright side of something, where’s the gift in the challenge was like a motto for us, right? Where’s the gift and the challenge. However, there is a tact to using that as well. And I’ll give you an example of what I mean where you don’t want to use God only give you what you can. There’s a woman who wrote a book called a long side, and it was basically how do you work with somebody in their time of trauma than their time of need? And the thing is, that what people often want is, is not for you to say, you know, when they when they’re baring their soul of their, of their, their, their toughest, you know, moment in life for you to say, everything’s gonna be okay.

Unknown Speaker  37:40  

What they want to hear you say is, that sucks.

Unknown Speaker  37:45  

That’s what they want.

Unknown Speaker  37:47  

They they want you know, it’s a meeting them where they are and it’s okay to say that just sucks. That’s just that’s really terrible. And then the other thing is not to tell people that everything’s going to be Okay, but to show up with your work with your actions in a way that just loves on them. So another one is don’t ask, What can I do for you? Right? What can I do for you in this time, but just do something. Right? Like don’t ask, What can I do for you, because that puts the burden on them to have to figure out what to what to do. But you just show up, bring them food, do something, cut their lawn, you know, give them a gift, share some, whatever it is that you can, and what I hear why I bring all this up. And it may be a loose connection may not be answering the question that you’re asking directly. But it was the thing that I felt during this, which is about an honest conversation, and about not making everything so you know, let’s see the world through rose colored lenses, but it real truth, a real honesty. And this goes back to we could circle back to when you’re below the line. It’s okay to say I’m just below the line and you don’t have to go How fast can we get you above the line? Right? Like you’re broken below the line and you’re okay above the line. It’s like no It’s okay to be below the line totally fine. And you can stay there if you want. It’s just important to recognize it. So when we have recognition of this, I do think we find a deeper truth. Steven, I do think we have a more valuable conversation when we’re not trying to just paint everything to make it look good. And I think that we are becoming a little more transparent as a society. I think that we’re we’re braving some good conversations that we’ve we’ve put we haven’t had the chance or not the chance that’s the wrong word that we haven’t had the courage to embrace in the past. And I love that we’re stepping into those, those open dialogues right now. Yeah, I think that there’s a lot of reasons why that’s happening. And it could be another hour long conversation as to Oh, man.

Unknown Speaker  39:41  
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Yeah, I already know, at least somewhat the direction that would go that will definitely be a follow up one. Yeah, I think it’s just crazy how much opportunity we have in the world right now. to really start to have these deeper conversations right and start having these deeper conversations around. How it’s like, you know, it kind of feels like we need to talk about some of the hippie stuff from back in the, you know, back in the 70s. Like, well, we can solve it all with love. But from this new perspective right now, because there’s too many people trying to solve hate and fear with hate, and fear, and that’s just not going to work. And so I fully believe that we’re at this, this new paradigm shift, or at least the opportunity over the next few years, maybe the next decade for this big new paradigm shift for humans, and to really be much, much more connected. I mean, I love that you mentioned conscious leadership. That’s something that I’ve been reading everything I could find on conscious leadership right now. Because you know, I have a business as well. And so how can I be a better leader, to make that little group of people in the world more aware and know that it’s okay to be true versions of themselves and go out and spread that love And their community and not think that just by spreading love that it’s, you know, cheesy or woowoo or like, no, I gotta take a stand. I got to do something more powerful than that. But you can’t solve fear and hate with fear and hate. Right? Yeah.